Rewards, Neuroscience and Your Organization

Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!

This is the 58th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, we get an update on the executive education system we are building and discuss neuroscience and rewards. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Here are some resources mentioned in this episode:

Show Notes

[00:00:06]
Mind Your Noodles Podcast – Episode 58

[00:00:20]
Episode 58 – Rewards

[00:00:36]
Executive Education Update

[00:04:21]
Rewards Rsearch

[00:05:34]
5 Things Driving Human Behavior/Actions

[00:08:19]
Rewards Systems and Our Brain

[00:11:00]
Extrinsic vs, Intrinsic Motivation

[00:17:41]
Frederick Taylor

 

Transcript

Tripp Babbitt: [00:00:06] Take care of the brains that take care of you with a Mind Your Noodles podcast keep you up to date on the latest neuroscience research and practices to keep your brain healthy.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:00:20] Strategies to help your organization brain friendly. Hi, I’m Tripp Babbitt host the Mind Your Noodles podcast, and this is the fifty eighth episode of this podcast.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:00:36] And I’m going to start out by giving a little update on the training that I’m recording.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:00:41] And I’m getting lots of feedback from a few folks that either I’ve worked with in the past or I’ve started to look at some of the videos for me and and just kind of give me some general feedback. This past week, I did add a new video. It has to do with the thinking lens.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:01:06] So I have I believe that’s now the seventh video that’s out there. I think I actually put one out there by mistake. I saw where I had a draft that that went live. But that’s OK. I took it back out, but. So you got six videos or seven videos now with an overview of the system, the the education, the executive at executive education system. And the first seven videos are more about what it’s all about. How it developed, what you’re gonna get out of it. Those types of things. And then I give the overview. The first two components that we use in the training, which is the first is the customer lens, and then the second one is the thinking lens and the thinking lens overviews. The one I just released this past week. So you can go out and get these for free right now. They’re at Mind Your Noodles dot com forward slash free. Why they’re free. Or you can go to the ninety five method dot com forward slash free. Now at some point I may combine these Web sites or do some things with that.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:02:27] I’ve kept the not the podcast and the Web site for the ninety five methods separate up to this point.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:02:35] This week, because I’m research sheet of this stuff for the thinking lands, I am adding some more depth to it and questions that you can ask to trying to get and understand how you think about your organization, either consciously or unconsciously. And a lot of organizations have things that have been there for so long that they are really unconscious. And so I’m trying to bring the things that are unconscious to your conscious ness moving forward so you can kind of make decisions about whether you want to try something different or not.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:03:16] And this is not a high pressure type of education system. It is to educate you about how your system is put together and maybe give you some new theories to look at other than the theories at work that you have today. Because everything you have in your organization, the way you reward people, the way you control people, where you punish people, the way that you structure your organization. All of those things are based in theory. And the question ultimately becomes, do you want to look at different theories that are out there that might make your organization better? Now, I found that some of the other theories that are not being used in organizations work better and they give you a competitive advantage. But you are also welcome to keep doing what you’re doing if it’s working for you.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:04:07] So that’s just going through some of the knowledge. I’m I’m passing on about what I’ve learned in neuroscience and how it can help your organization will be one of the benefits of the executive education.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:04:21] So this exhibit, executive education, is primarily focused on the individual at this point, because getting someone in the organization to think differently is kind of the beginning point. And then taking this executive education system and then working with other people. And they’ll be things in this about working with teams, executive teams of people or teams of people in general that will enhance what your organization can do. So this week, because I’m doing the research, I’ve been researching rewards, which will be one of the thinking lens that we’ll look at. And as I’ve mentioned before, these things overlap control rewards structure there. They’re interconnected. And it’s just the thinking of the system in and of itself. So when I start to look at rewards, I started to think in terms of, OK, what do we know about human actions and behavior that we’ve learned basically in this podcast or Maslow’s hierarchy or whatever you you want to go to?

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:05:34] And I think that there are five things that really drive human behavior and actions. One is obviously social, and I’ve talked quite a bit in this podcast about social and how important it is in an organization and that this whole corona virus thing has really upset the apple cart from a standpoint of being able to be social and may in fact, we seem to be moving away from social. We even call this thing social distancing. In the previous podcast I talked about. It’s not social distancing, it’s physical just distancing that we need. We require as humans to be very social and to interact with each other, either as families or even at work with our neighbors, those types of things. And so social to me, if I were to redo Maslow’s hierarchy, that would be the fundamental thing. No baby could survive without a social network. They don’t come out of the womb ready to go. So they require people. They require a community of people in order to take care of them or at a minimum, at least their parents in order to take care of them. So that’s fundamental. And then there’s food. Got to have food. That’s one of the second things of the five. We have to have sleep.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:06:58] We’ve talked about the importance of sleep. And we don’t operate our brains don’t operate very well. And we don’t get sleep. And there are a number of things that that cause sleep to be deprived. And now we got one more with the coronavirus. We want to avoid pain. I mean, you know, our ancestors had to run from tigers and bears and all types of creatures that were out to either eat them or kill them because they they felt they were a threat. And then the fifth thing is rewards. And so that’s what I want to talk about today. So the five things, again, more social food, sleep, avoiding pain and rewards. Those are just my five four. And so there’s no if you may say, oh, you’re missing whatever, that that’s fine. But I want to focus on rewards and I want to understand. Understand that someone thinks they’re going to put links to because I’m not the neuroscientists here. I read the articles. I talk to people. That are in that community. But and gets very technical points. And if you want to read more, I’ll put links out to some of the sources associated with the reward system in our brains.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:08:19] But but basically, our brains do have a reward system and they communicate using dopamine. And the interesting thing that I’ve found and some of this is filtered into a lot of the different episodes I’ve done over the past year, is that. Dopa mean actually activates when there’s the expectation of a reward. Not the actual receiving of it. So if you can imagine as a customer that you’re calling something up and there’s some product that you want. I don’t know what it could be, but might be a new pair running shoes and you order at that. The expectation of getting it and wanting it releases the dopamine at that point. Now, I’ve also talked in terms of if the reward if I get the shoes and they’re exactly what I expected and they feel good and they fit and, you know, all those types of things, then that then it’s going to increase the amount of dope mean. And what it does is it then enhances the connections, the memory that I have of that good feeling associated with it. Now, conversely, if I get it and it’s the wrong size or the color isn’t quite what I expected or whatever than that, then the dopamine drops and it doesn’t stay. In a matter of fact, when the articles that I put in a previous episode that I’ll put a link to is that if it meets it, it’s awesome, you know, or exceeds it. That’s great. But exponentially. It’s worse when it’s not expected. So there’s a whole series of risk aversion. And boy, I’ll never order from that company again because they sent me a shoe that doesn’t fit or doesn’t feel right or wasn’t what I expected or the package was damage where you may not blame the company for that. But at Essence, it’s greater. The negativeness is greater than the positive feelings that you get when you get something that exceeds. So it gets really gets entrenched in our brain. So talking about rewards, you know, there’s a lot of different ways to break it down.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:11:00] And one of the ways I like to break it down is between extrinsic types of rewards and intrinsic types of reward. So next triptychs reward or punishment, if you will, would be things like caution, Crete’s fear, you know, in the organization. That’s one way, you know, we’re going to go out. We’re gonna punish people.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:11:25] And that extrinsic motivation is used to control. Now, we’ve talked about in the past that once an organization reaches about 150 people and this has to do with our social network, we can handle 150 people or so on our social network. Get beyond that. That’s where we’ve got to have rules and policies and procedures and hierarchy and all the things that come along with today’s organizations. And these can be limiting and they, in essence, become very bureaucratic in nature and lose sight of what its mission or aim or purposes in its community. So this extrinsic motivation is something that’s used quite a bit in organizations. And what you’ll see in the executive training are a lot of questions associated with, you know, are using extrinsic motivation. What are the types of extrinsic motivation that you’re you’re using are using fear. Do you believe that that’s a good thing in your organization?

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:12:31] And again, at this point, I really don’t want people to be judgmental, but I am going to come up with some different theories about how extrinsic motivation and intrinsic motivation. So looking at intrinsic motivation, these are the things that that make us naturally curious and interested.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:12:52] So before we were coerced with Candy to go to the doctor or to the dentist and things like that, as a child, we’re naturally curious and interested in things who we’re learning all the time.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:13:08] And over time we started into extrinsic type rewards and intrinsic types of rewards and organizations. And so. What I just what we’ll be doing in the thinking lens is going through and looking at things like the intrinsic and the and the extrinsic types of motivations that you have within your organization. By having you ask questions and answering them about your your organization and the way you think about these things, and usually the way you think about things is the way you play them out. I mean, if you have extrinsic rewards like bonuses and things of that sort, then. You’re just taking inventory of them without being judgmental about them.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:14:01] So, you know, there’s the famous quote that, you know, the beatings will continue until morale improves. So, you know what? What is your thinking in organs? Is that the way you kind of run is like a pirate ship breaking out where everybody’s got to fall in line if you’re going to get your reward at the end anyway. So there’s a number there’s a lot of different thinking on this. And America, you know, I heard Steve Forbes the other day was talking about that he wanted to offer pharmaceutical companies 50 billion dollars to or not just pharmaceutical companies, but anybody 50 billion dollars for a vaccine to come through and that we ought to have this extrinsic reward of 50 billion dollars to get companies. So it just, you know, from my perspective, it’s do we do in organizations or are we looking for competition or are we looking for cooperation? And what would do what would happen? And just kind of taking yourself out of your own organization for a minute. What would happen if you had a reward out there for 50 billion dollars for someone coming up with a vaccine? What would happen? But to the the cooperation that might go on between pharmaceutical company companies and having to find a cure, would that inhibit it or would this competition really help us rise to the occasion? And these are the types of things that I think you have to be conscious about within your organization and begin to look at different theories associated with it.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:15:58] So, you know, a lot of the the thinking that we have in our organizations that I’ve covered off in this podcast probably multiple times is this whole concept of individual versus the system. Are we going to reward the individual? And if we do, does it compromise the system that they work? In other words, going back to this competition versus cooperation. This competition that’s going on within our organization between people or seek cooperation or do. Does your company just view that? Oh, I don’t think that that causes any problems. But does it as becomes the ultimate question? And this concept of pay as a motivator. And there’s been a lot written on that. I know Dan Pink even before him and not much of the research has changed from Alfie Combe back in the 80s. And Dan Pink kind of picked up on that. That stuff has become the name of today, but it’s all the same research and and some of the thinking about pay as a motivating factor. But it’s it’s all based in historically into the work of Frederick Taylor back in, you know, the early nineteen hundreds. And we still. Use a lot of the things that that were were being were new at the time of when Frederick Taylor was working with organizations and, you know, pay for your for performance. And there was the Schmidt encounter.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:17:41] If you read a little bit about Frederick Taylor Schmidt was the guy was the worker that, you know, hey, I’m gonna pay you an extra five cents if you instead of doing 40 in an hour, you did 50 in an hour. Oh, you did fifty an hour. Well, you do at 60 in an hour. Then I’ll pay you another ten cents and so forth.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:18:01] And so this pay for performance content concept not necessarily originated, but seemed to be perpetuated by Frederick Taylor and the thinking of breaking out all these pieces in a very regressive way. An analytical way of kind of breaking down the pieces. And we’ve talked in terms of this education system is based in synthetic thinking or systems thinking of some people like to call it. And that’s synthetic thinking is something that is not as readily used in organizations as analytical, because most of us have grown up being analytical thinkers. And so the next generation of managers to take their organization to the next level need to be synthetic thinkers. At least that’s my theory. So and getting to look at the customer lens and the thinking lens, we’re in essence going through. And saying, OK, is most of what’s going on in my organization, the system, or is it the individual? And that’s one of the things that I think people need to wrestle with.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:19:20] And in order for my education system to be of use to you, you have to believe that over 50 percent, the performance of your organization is attributable to the system and not an individual or special causes and not going to get into that term right now. But in essence, that it’s it’s it’s looking at the system as as the greatest opportunity for change and more so if you break that down. From my perspective is, you know, the thinking that you go in there, if you change your thinking that that offers your greatest opportunity for improvement, not the process improvement or Lean or Six Sigma, those types of things. It’s what’s going on in your head. And that’s one of the reasons why I got into the whole neuroscience piece.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:20:15] So I want to have a episode on rewards doesn’t cover off everything you put in executive education, but give you a sense of the types of questions that I ask in this system or to to look at your own system and take inventory of how do you think about rewards in your organization? Are they extrinsic? Are they intrinsic? What are the extrinsic rewards? Where do they intrinsic? And, you know, I can even say from an intrinsic standpoint that we get intrinsically motivated when we have a purpose that is for the greater good, that we’re doing something for society. You know, nurses and doctors have this kind of greater good component, even more so right now with the with the coronavirus. So. That’s one thing. And then the you know, even if we know if we’re in a contact center and we’re answering phone calls or a maybe now you’re answering as part of a contact center from your home. But you get that initial call, but you lose something in your intrinsic motivation when you can’t connect back to how the customer fared. So, you know, I hate it when I get those surveys after I’ve talked to the contact center. How does the contact person, where are they? That it sounds like they were friendly and smile. Who cares what? Only thing I care about when I’m calling is getting my problem solved or ordering the product that I want or service that I want.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:21:54] You know, so some of the nonsensical types of questions that are asked in these surveys are just unbelievable to me. But I will know you a lot of times when I after I’ve talked to someone context center, whether I’m, you know, they did a good job or not. I mean, it’s part they’re part of a broader system. They meant they hit it off the attack. Well, my aim was to get what, say, new cable for my house, although I stream everything but pretend we have new cable in my house and they have to send a tech over in order to, you know, put things together. When I talk to the person, the contact center doesn’t. How do I rate that? You know? And yet a lot of them are rated and then given rewards or punishments based on, you know, how they perform with you on the phone. And I just I don’t know. To me, ridiculous, but. OK. So anyway, those are just some things to think about with regards to rewards in the education. Purkey, get in deeper types of questions and asking it. So that is it for this week on the episode of Rewards.

 

Tripp Babbitt: [00:23:10] If you are an existing executive looking for new ideas or a refresh, a new executive trying to understand a new organization or an aspiring executive looking for a leg up on other people, that you’re competing for an executive position, the ninety five method provides executive education. You can apply by studying your own organization. We’ll give you the necessary skills not taught at universities in synthetic thinking, neuroscience, executive data analytics, decision making innovation and a customer in organizational structure. You can get a preview of the training right now at Mind Your Noodles dot com forward slash free or at the ninety five metho dot com for slash free. This was a limited time offer. Before we start to offer the executive education before a an investment that is undetermined at this point.

 

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