Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
- Mind Your Noodles Episode 4: Dr. Paul Zak
- Article: Decision-Making and Risk-Taking: 3 Brain Regions Involved in Choice
Mind Your Noodles: Episode 47
Dr. Zak Interview
Three Neuroscience Disciplines Studying the Customer – Consumer Neuroscience, Neuromarketing and Neuroeconomics
Types of Technologies in Neuroscience
Ethics and Neuroscience
Tripp Babbitt: [00:00:06] Take care of the brains that take care of you with the Mind Your Noodles podcast. We keep you up to date on the latest neuroscience research and practices to keep your brain healthy and strategies to help your organization be brain friendly.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:00:26] Hi, I’m Tripp Babbitt, host of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. And in the forty seventh episode, I’m going to talk about the customer or consumer, however you may refer to customers in your organization. And I’m doing research for some of the training I’m putting together as we go to interaction points where the customer comes into contact with your organization. These become really critical moments for you in your organization to be able to deliver really good service from the system that you have.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:01:14] And as I got into it and started to do this research, there’s a lot of different types of things out there that are going on. And I think everybody should be at least aware of it. I’m not sure how far this podcast will go into some of these customer types of things. So let me just kind of run it down. We had Dr. Paul Zak on and one of the beginning episodes, I’ll put a link out there to that particular episode. And Dr. Zack, if you remember, talked about oxytocin and the trust hormone, as he would call it. Some people reference him as the love doctor or whatever. But he had started something called neuro economics.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:02:03] And he talked during the course of that interview about neuro economics being how we go about making decisions and especially around the products we buy, the services we buy, the brands that we buy and those types of things.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:02:22] But there are a couple of other areas that I want to make note of in the area of research on the the customer consumer.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:02:35] And one of those is consumer neuroscience. Now, consumer neuroscience is is somewhat referenced as an academic use of neuroscience to better understand the marketing effects and consumer behavior. And the other is neuromarketing, which is the commercial application of neuroscience technology technologies to drive marketing types of efforts. So those are between neuroeconomics and neuromarketing and consumer neuroscience. We’ve got a lot of stuff going on that in connection with neuroscience and the customer consumer and they are measuring how the brain reacts and neuromarketing. You might use neuro Imogene over things like surveys and focus groups and market tests and questionnaires and things of that sort. And.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:03:37] It’s a developing field, especially it looks probably the last 10 or 15 years really has started to come into its own and there are a number of firms out there that are actively doing these types of of research. One of the barriers to doing this and I think but again, I think this is something every company, every person probably ought to be aware of.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:04:01] The the barriers are the cost. So a lot of the machinery we talked about, especially early in some of the podcast episodes, who talked about Petey positron emission tomography, f MRI, you know, these are machines that are a million dollars or more electro and SFL plug in several Graffy or E G. You know, that’s ten thousand dollars, which isn’t as big of that as an investment of less, let’s say FMR F MRI and Magneto and stuff a lot. Graffy G those are two million dollar machines, trans cranial magnetic stimulation or TMX. They do eye tracking. This is just a number of different types of technologies that are emerging and we use for my research, it looks like some of these things are really coming along and they’re learning a lot more about the brain as they’re able to that technologies get better and our ability to understand the brain therefore gets better.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:05:15] But it’s still kind of an expensive proposition. So some of the larger companies you’ll see out there using consumer neuroscience and neuromarketing and neuroeconomics and it’s kind of early stages to be able to use it.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:05:31] But this also brings up a number of things that we’ve seen with things like data, because ultimately these technologies, as they get more complicated, they start to compromise maybe the ethics of an organization. So if we look like, you know, data mining and things of that sort. We know the patterns in how people buy certain things. And, you know, these algorithms are being used obviously in Google and ads and things of that sort. And we’re gonna have the same dilemma coming up, especially as these technologies are around being able to monitor your brain.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:06:14] We’ll have the same ethics types of issues if somebody can actually read your brain. And, you know, obviously there is a technologies out there at this juncture that would be able to, you know, automatically get into your brain without you knowing it that I know of anyway.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:06:36] But but it’s coming. I mean, I think that these are the types of things that we’re going to be wrestling with as businesses as time goes by, you know, how far is too far.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:06:50] And using some of some of these data and some of these technologies that get more sophisticated about how our brains work and how we buy and how consumers react.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:07:07] So primarily what I pulled from my research for the training that I’m putting together are a couple of things. One, we’ve I’ve talked about maybe too extensively, but I’m going to mention it here just because I think it’s so important as this concept or idea around going from the Craft age to the industrial revolution. And the whole functional separation of work and how we’ve lost track of the customer. And so we don’t get the same reward we would normally get in our brain as we would have in the craft industry, and we dealt with a customer end to end because we knew we delivered a product or service to that person, that customer.End to end. And they could.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:08:05] They could see it sense the satisfaction if they weren’t satisfied that they could continue. And my example is typically swords. Making a sword that that’s useful to someone and having that connection is very rewarding and is connected to purpose in your brain.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:08:25] It’s a reward pathway that you can derive great satisfaction from. And this gets the importance of, you know, what your purposes and also being. Have a great understanding of what role the customer plays in that reward pathway. And now it’s been obscured by all of this functional separation of work. We’ve kind of built systems that aren’t very brain friendly. The second thing is this reward pathway that’s connected with the orbit o front tul cortex. These this is an area of your prefrontal cortex that gives you feelings of pleasure and happiness. And we knew our expectations as a customer are exceeded. Then your O F C or your reward pathway, your feelings of pleasure and happiness go up. But when you fall short of the expected gains, which a lot of times you run into this with customers, they have expectations of what they’re going to get. And some of these ACPET expectations are built sometimes by advertising or promises from a salesperson or whatever.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:09:47] If it’s not met, then you get exponential loss more. So on the down side is that exponential where the upside isn’t as great as the downside? So if you are going to dis satisfy a customer, then then you. Are risking making them averse to your organization and that you really can’t recover from it. And this is this is this or same thing to me. May it theoretically from. From my standpoint, it is the reason why it’s hard for people to switch brands because they’re so risk averse. If they’re getting something that’s good now for not getting something good, then it’s pretty easy to switch a particular brand. And there are a number of articles, especially around Coke versus Pepsi, and it’s a fact that a lot of people may actually think Pepsi tastes better.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:11:00] I personally do. I like Coke too, but I prefer Pepsi if it’s available. But the advertising has programed our brains so much on the Coke side that people have a tendency to want to have Coca-Cola.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:11:19] But as far as the service goes that you you give someone or the product that is being made. That is something that, you know, you.Can really screw things up for your organization if the services wrong for a product or the services wrong for a service organization or the product doesn’t meet the expectation that someone had. And this is actually one of the things that I’ve had a lot of conversations with Doug Hall for Eureka Ranch’s. Most people have these outrageous promises, but they’ve never vetted their actual product or service to say whether they met that. And it reminds me of the H. Fact company that I worked with here in the states that advertise, you know, you know, if you call us today, you’ll have air conditioning or heat tonight.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:12:19] And when that’s not met, then people will have a tendency to not want to talk to work with you.And in the case of. Once we started to actually measure in this H. však organization that it was only happening like 38 percent of the time that that night, but they were able to get their heating or their cooling that they needed. And so you got to wonder what happened to the other 62 percent that did not get the delivery of service that they expected because it was promised at an advertised advertisment and whether those people ever went back to that company. You know, I don’t know enough about the market in that particular area of the US to know whether competitors were as bad. You know, it was just that it’s kind of like sometimes how I feel about AT&T versus Comcast or Exfil City. You know, it’s this one is as bad as the other, you know, type of thing.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:13:19] And and so picking between the two, it’s kind of like, yo, can I go to this one now?And I’m going to move to this one because their services is really not up to par.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:13:32] Least from my perspective. Yeah. And you may have different experience where where you are. But I think it’s important for people to realize that customer let downs in the past is in is something that’s important to study. And you got to remember that those bad experiences from a customer perspective are stored away in the brain and they get deepened by the fact that these reward pathways have been damaged. Oprah and your within your company, because they’re expecting a reward, expecting their h vac hair, their air conditioning to be fixed or their heat to be fixed. And now it’s not. And these things play out tremendously. And it’s one of the reasons why it’s so important for you as an executive or as an aspiring executive to understand the types of types of things that your customers are experiencing from your organization. Looking through that customer lens gives you great power within an organization, also great knowledge about what’s actually happening with the customer, because otherwise you’re just anecdotally saying, well, I ran into a customer last week and they said we were great. But if that’s if that’s one of the 38 percent and h vac example, then that’s not representative of how you’re actually performing and getting your arms wrapped around your performance to the customer from their perspectives is one of the most important things you can do in your system assessment, which is where all this begins. Then we’ve got to get in. Then after we’ve gone through and and looked at things through that customer lens, then we have to switch over to why do we think that way? What is happening within our organization? So that’s that’s what I want to talk about this week.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:15:36] I thought it was important for people to know about these other types of things that are going on and neuromarketing and consumer neuroscience and neuro economics, because it’s something these are things to keep track of.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:15:52] The costs of these things will go down over time. And then the question will become ethically, what we going to do with it? Just like the data, if we could have someone walk into a store and we can read their mind by virtue of the things that that someone is looking at. You know, there’s eye tracking that goes on that if you wear special things. But if you could do that automatically, that that that’s pretty cool. So that was what I want to talk about this week and hope we have a good week and we’ll talk again next week’s episode.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:16:34] Hi, this is Tripp Babbitt. I’d like to inform you that I will be releasing some of the videos of how to use the ninety five method in order to achieve a brain friendly organization within the next month and a half. There’ll be some free videos to give you a sense of what the training is about, and then also a little of the background behind the training itself. So if you’re interested and be notified of any updates as far as the training availability, then the pricing that I’ll be releasing the next month and a half or so, then sign up at Mind Your Noodles dot com forward slash training.