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[00:00:06] Mind Your Noodles Podcast – Episode 60
[00:00:27] Episode 60 – Is Marketing Missing from The 95 Method
[00:02:22] The Ongoing Disruption of Marketing and Advertising
[00:04:07] The 95 Method Doesn’t Do Leadership – It Does Method
[00:10:04] Yes! Dr. Robert Cialdini
[00:10:18] Marketing and Persuasion – The Social Connection
Tripp Babbitt: [00:00:06] Take care of the brains that take care of you with a Mind Your Noodles podcast keep you up to date on the latest neuroscience research and practices to keep your brain healthy and strategies to help your organization brain friendly.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:00:27] Hi, I’m Tripp Babbitt host the Mind Your Noodles podcast. And in the sixtieth episode of this podcast, we’re going to talk about marketing. Now, why marketing? Well, because a few of you out there have asked me why marketing isn’t one of the 95 method methods and the four that I buy into that every organization I believe needs to have are innovation. A customer in design, the ability to take data to knowledge and to have a decision making method. So those are the four methods that I really emphasize. So why do I look at those and not marketing some of the other ways? Well, there’s a lot of different ways to slice this. But let me start with, first of all, the philosophy of what I’m building here. This is executive education, not built on the leadership types of Cordy’s of people. This is about building method. Now, leadership qualities like being inspirational and being nice or having empathy and things of that sort. I’m not saying they’re not important. There’s just a lot of books and blogs and podcasts that are associated with leadership. And I think that they’re important. It’s just not what my focus is. My focus is on giving executives actual methods that they can use to help me improve their organization. So I think of marketing kind of as the same thing. It’s it.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:02:22] Well, first of all, it’s been totally disrupted. Well, let’s start there. And it’s constantly shifting. It’s it’s a realm in and of itself. We know that advertising is not as effective as it used to be. The Internet has changed this hugely and is still changing it. And I for me, it’s very difficult to keep up with all of the marketing stuff that is out there. Now, if we go back to, for instance, Park, how. Who I interviewed who does storytelling or narratives for organizations. He ran an advertising agency and he had to pivot away from it because if you look around there, many advertising agencies anymore. So he pivoted to something that he believes holds a future. And I do, too. I actually like park house stuff. So the other thing that kind of bothers me about the whole marketing thing is I used a number of different marketing folks, and there’s a generation of people out there that right now are taking this attitude. Well, we’ll fake it till we make it. And I don’t know that that’s necessarily what I would be looking for. But there because it’s the Wild West out there right now on marketing and in branding and things of that sort. It’s hard to tell what really works and what does not. So I don’t really put my time into it.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:04:07] And I see parallels between that and kind of the leadership stuff. There are many things that may be very effective and there are many things that are very ineffective, depending on your organization and you as a person and things of that sort.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:04:22] Now, what do I put my time into? What do I think? It makes sense to have method on innovation. So whereas advertising is becoming less effective, actually building a product or service that is good. Or if you remember my interview with Maggie Nichols from the Eureka Ranch. They are involved in innovation. They’re our partners in innovation. They we build meaningfully unique products, meaning that they’re something that people will be willing to pay for and that they’re unique and new and different would be another word for unique that that Maggie and I talked about. And by virtue of that, you’re actually building something that is better than what’s out there. Now, one of the biggest problems we have is, you know, people, brands, stuff and, you know, all these fake it till you make it types of people. They build something that isn’t really very good. But, you know, they know how to brand it and market it. And there’s something to be said for, you know, the only people really making money on some of these marketing things are the people who are teaching the marketing as opposed to the people who are trying to use it to be effective with.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:05:49] And that’s not a universal statement. But I think it’s something you have to be wary of. Like I said, it is the Wild West out there right now, and there are too many fake it till you make it types of folks in the marketing industry. Now, where do I put time other than innovation? What fits into that is the decision making is actually build into the innovation method that I am a proponent of.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:06:16] And that is that, you know, when you’re innovating that you’re being able to pivot on it. You can scrap it. You can come up with a new idea, whatever it is. And I think that’s one of the problems with decision making, is people make decisions and then they, you know, forge ahead and well, you know, wipe our hands clean. And now we can just go on to the next thing, as opposed to trying to make the decision we made or the innovation we just had to work or be useful to people. And there’s a whole system for that innovation system. And there’s a decision making method that that I use. And it’s based off of Plan to Study Act. But you have to understand kind of the neuroscience of why we make decisions the way we do. So you can your brain can kind of unpack what what’s happening and improve it. So I think of if we make a good product, then from an innovation standpoint, wouldn’t have to rely on things per say on marketing. Thanks, Nesser. Does that mean we can forego it? Does it mean marketing isn’t important? It’s just it’s a whole realm. I do not want to get into with what I’m trying to accomplish. I want to give executives methods that they can do. I don’t want to make them inspirational leaders, you know, by having empathy and things of that sort. That’s just not what I’m building here. I am a fan of a couple of things. And I do suggest that you read about these things, if not only to protect yourself against methods that are being used on you, but also because I think they’re universal truth and there’s good data on some of the experiments they use.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:08:16] And I would treat them as I do in this area, in all of this podcast as theories at work. In other words, one theory might work for you. Might not. But here’s some things that have work that you might want to try. And. And it fills your idea bucket of potentially things that you can use in marketing. So one of those people that I follow is Paul. Dr. Paul Zak. And some of the research that he does and neuroeconomics and following him, I believe he has a podcast now. But the other person I follow for quite a while now and I’m going to say probably when I say quite a while, probably five years is Dr. Robert Cialdini. He was featured on 60 Minutes at one point, but he’s written three books that I know of that I have that I own. One is influence. Another one which I think was maybe twelve years old or so. Now, pre suasion, which he wrote a couple years ago. And the newest one is. Yes. And this is the one that I would suggest most people read because yes. Is basically 50 chapters of some of these experiments that is run on how you persuade people. And this could be persuading people to use a product. This it could be persuading people to do something like a reuse their towels, which is actually one of the experiments that he does. And these are useful things to know and also the ways to get people to buy into your narrative and your purpose.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:10:04] Things that you can do. And like I said, it’s fifth. I believe it’s 50 chapters are fit. There they’re definitely 50 different things or maybe more than 50 chapters. But they’re 50 things that you should probably be familiar with.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:10:18] I would suggest that that you are because they’re being used on you may affect a lot of these marketers that that I see are actually using these things today. Now, one of the first things I probably cover often why I think this is is very relative. We’re talking in terms of neuroscience things. That’s where we’ve talked quite a bit in this podcast about building, you know, how important social is to an organization. And you’ve heard me say on a number of times that social is the foundational component, I believe, or should be in Maslow’s hierarchy. We can’t survive as a baby without our parents or a network of people to take care of us. So social is one of the things that that’s very important. Just to give you a sense of some of the things you might see in the book, and I’m not going to go through all 50 things, but Cialdini talks. Dr. Cialdini talks about a woman named Colleen Szot, who is a I guess, who I would call her a copy writer. Maybe she’d be offended by that. I don’t know. But if you talk about the Nordic track exercise machine, which we’ve most of us have heard of, she’s the one who changed their call to action line from operators are waiting. Please call now, too, if operators are busy. Please call again. Now, what did that do? That provided something that Cialdini tuks quite a bit and all three of his books, which is social proof, in other words. Well, we have this is visualization in our head. When somebody says operators are waiting, please call now.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:12:13] You’ve got an operator sitting there reading a book or catching up on their texts that they have on their phone or something like that, but when you say if operators are busy, please call again. There’s almost a scarcity type of thing that goes off in your brain and also says that, boy, this must be really important because a really good product because, you know, the lines are going to be busy. You know, when I call. So it provides this social proof that this product is is really good. Now, I’m going to tell you this stuff can be used for good or evil. No. And that’s true for almost any marketing or any of these neuroscience or psychological types of things. Me personally, I’m not a manipulative person. You pretty much I call them as I see them. That works against me and for me. But it’s just the way I am. But I do like knowing some of these things are going on, so I know why my brain is pulling a particular way or in a certain direction. And I think that this book will certainly help you and that, you know, moving forward. So these are the. This is the type of book that, like I said, everybody should read. I will put links to these books in my. In the show notes. So you can get it. And like I said, I the one I recommend the most is probably the Yes book just because it’s got 50 individual chapters there or maybe two or three pages at the most summer, like one and a half a kind of take you through some of the research that’s been done and things that that they have.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:14:08] And I would use them, as you know, in a marketing realm, as theories at work, things to try within your organization to see if they work and help with not only your marketing efforts, but but the way that you are trying to persuade people in a particular direction. And I think if you have a purpose that has, you know, a greater good innovation or tapping into people’s creativity, we’re being very brain friendly by having a lot of these things like innovation and customer and design and being able to see how how the service or product affects a customer, being able to take data to knowledge and being able to pivot, pivot on our decision making, understand our decision making and how we make decisions in organizations. And this is gets to the executive education training that I’m putting together so that you can look through a customer lens and then a thinking lens that you have that in essence tells you why you do the things you do in your organization, because you think a certain way. And uncovering those and some of these techniques, I think can be use. And as I said, as at a minimum, you should know that people may be using them against you. And nobody likes to feel manipulated. You know, that’s the knowingly manipulated in some of these things are very kind of behind the scenes types of things that were that they found work, but they can be used for very good purposes.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:15:59] You know, if we can get more people and they stay at a hotel to not send their their towels down to get wash that they’re reusing them and that that’s helping society and global warming and things like that in some way than those are useful, useful ways to make things better. And really, that’s what most of my methods are about, are building an organization that’s better for not only customers, but for employees and for society as a whole. So that’s it for this week. I just wanted to, like I said, cover off something I’m marking. People have asked me about it. Why? Marketing is one of the methods. It is indirectly by innovation and decision making and how we go about that. It doesn’t mean that marketing isn’t important is just a whole round kind of like leadership that I just don’t want to get into. I may add something later. And certainly if you asked me, I tell you what I think about different people that I’ve worked with on online stuff. It’s just like anything else you’ve got to learn. You’ve got to pivot. You pick up some information. You might think that a certain method is going to make sense or a certain theory is going to make sense for what you’re doing. And it may or may not give you the results that you want. And then you keep pivoting on the idea or scrap it and try something different. And that’s how we learn. So that’s it.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:17:38] Thanks for listening. We’ll talk to you next week. If you are an existing executive looking for new ideas or a refresh, a new executive trying to understand a new organization or an aspiring executive looking for a leg up on other people, that you’re competing for an executive position, the ninety five method provides executive education that can apply by studying your own organization. We’ll give you the necessary skills not taught at universities in synthetic thinking, neuroscience, executive data analytics, decision making innovation and a customer in organizational structure. You can get. A preview of the training right now at Mind Your Noodles dot com forward slash free or at the ninety five metho dot com for slash free. This was a limited time offer before we start to offer the executive education for a an investment that is undetermined at this point.