Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
- Book: Neuro-Discipline by Peter Hollins
- Book: The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg
- Book: Thinking Fast and Slow by Dan Kahneman
[00:00:06] Mind Your Noodles Podcast
[00:00:27] Episode 65 – Thinking Fast and Slow for You and Your Organization
[00:02:03] The Problem with Perfect
[00:03:48] Your Two Brains
[00:07:43] Tricking Your Brain
[00:09:39] Hebb’s Axiom
[00:10:02] Making Discipline through Neural Pathways
[00:13:29] Your Mind’s Lies
[00:15:43] Three Imperatives to Understand Discipline
Tripp Babbitt: [00:00:06] Take care of the brains that take care of you with a Mind Your Noodles podcast keep you up to date on the latest neuroscience research and practices to keep your brain healthy and strategies to help your organization brain friendly.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:00:27] This is the sixty fifth episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. I’m Tripp Babbitt the host, and this week I’m going to again give you an update on my executive education program and some interesting things that happened and putting this together and some things that I’ve I’ve learned. So I’m calling this episode thinking fast and slow for you and your organization. And one of the things that I think everyone struggles with, I certainly do, is this concept of procrastination or the self-discipline that’s involved in trying to put something together like like an executive education program.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:01:19] And it makes you kind of internalize things, you know, about the way that you think, and especially since I do this podcast on neuroscience. It got me thinking about the power of habit, which I’ve talked about before and previous episode with Charles Duhigg.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:01:38] I wrote that particular book and also I was doing some self reflection. I read a book called Your Neuro Discipline by Peter Hollins and. One of the struggles that I’ve had with putting this together is and he nailed it in it.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:02:03] We’ll talk a little bit more about it, is I have a tendency to be a perfectionist on some things, you know, other things I don’t care about. There are some things that that I do really care about. And I’m a perfectionist in that area. And getting feedback on my executive education program has really brought this to the forefront. And why there’s been delays in trying to get the executive education program out of the market is I wanted to be perfect.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:02:35] And it’s not going to be and I’ve accepted that. But I hope my actions haven’t accepted that. And reading this particular book, Neuro Discipline, Peter Hollin’s book takes you kind of through a process of why you think the way that you do.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:02:57] And to me, this bleeds over and to organizations and how they make decisions and things of that sort. So I want to talk about this this concept of self-discipline and some of the things are a little bit of a repeat, because I’ve talked about them in previous episodes. But, you know, we’ve we’ve talked before about the try and brain. And almost everybody I’ve talked to in kind of the non neuroscience world believes that there’s these three brains that operate.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:03:28] And the concept was made by quite a while ago and written about. And it’s just it’s fantasy. It’s not really the way your brain works, but it does help describe how your brain operates.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:03:48] Now, Dan Kahneman wrote Thinking fast and slow. And this is kind of how our brain works. When we when we hit something, something happens or we’re trying to take action on something. The emotion plays almost an immediate role. And it’s in Peter Hollonds book In a Neuro Discipline. He talks in terms of, you know, we have the survival focus and because of this survival focus that your emotions creep in to to to what we’re doing. And he compares it to a skittish cat. And, you know, I’ve talked before about the amygdala and that our amygdala is triggered. And it’s it’s not just the amygdala, but it made the amygdala, it seems to get thrown into this. But then the second part he talks about is kind of the this rational and thinking brain, which is really the neocortex and the prefrontal frontal neocortex and that were being able to think rationally and think things. So compared to Cayman’s to thinking fast and slow, your media reaction is going to be a survival type of focus. And but what we really need is this kind of rational and thinking brain. And Peter Hollins references this as Einstein type of thinking. So. What we want to happen is we want this rational and thinking brained, overcame, overcome this skittish cat type of mentality. And he comes up with a lot of different ideas and thoughts about how we can do this. And some of the concepts he talks about are ones I’ve read and a lot of different books. So the pleasure principle that we’re predecease disposed to seeking pleasure and avoiding pain.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:05:51] And this is enforced by dopamine. And we’ve talked about this in terms of a customer that that interacts with our organization. And the overriding thing is we want to avoid pain and dealing with things. And so if you have somebody who has a painful experience with your organization, they are going to avoid you like the plague and probably tell other people and things of that sort. And this is why the brain becomes very important and understand how our customers are thinking and how can we set up a scenario where we’re not triggering them to want to avoid us because they’re think of us in terms of of pain. We want to them to think of us in terms of pleasure. I call up, I got my problem solved. I call up and I got my product or service. And it was easy and and I enjoyed it. And, you know, the commercials say it, but very seldom do we actually get that as a result, how we’re dealing with organizations. He also talks about the five second rule and that, you know, because we are triggered in our fast bringing our you know, some people call monkey brain. Some people call reptile brain or whatever. And this gets into the try and conversation that is is just good for explanation. It’s not real. But in essence, that were triggered. And in that first five seconds, not a good time to make big decisions about things or and what actions you’re going to take.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:07:24] But what we need to happen in that five seconds is that kind of a self-discipline that we are were, you know, calming ourselves down and that we’re able to use our Einstein brain and Peter Hollins thinking.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:07:43] Now, also, Peter Hollins talks about the trick brain. Yeah, well, we need to trick our brain in to doing the things that we want it to do because it naturally won’t do it. It’s naturally wants to take the path of least resistance. Why it is. Why is that? Well, neurologically, what’s happening is the the rational thinking brain takes a lot more energy. We have to fuel it up in order to do it. And so you’re your brain kind of is lazy. From a standpoint of it wants to take, you know, what to do. The easy thing, not necessarily the right thing for you, which makes humans very interesting. And one of the ways you can trick your brain is become future focus. So we’ve talked about this before, right. In terms of organizations that that having a future for focused organization. But we want to do the same thing for ourself. And that we can see when we can visualize and think about something that is happening in the future. The benefit that we’re going to receive by the actions that we do today, we’re kind of trippy tricking our brain because we’re released dopamine to help.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:08:58] Use that to take action now. So that’s one way of doing it.He also talks in terms of the debt there being a pain associated with taking no action and that you think that you need to be able to trick your brain into saying that and to thinking that we’re gonna get pleasure or benefits of taking action. Really simple concepts. But by virtue of doing this, we create these neural pathways in something that he references a neuroscientist by the name PEB.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:09:39] And he calls it Hebb’s axiom is that.Our selves, Hebb’s Axiom, is basically cells that fire together, wire together, and you may have heard that phrase before. And so we want to develop this discipline because it becomes a habit and this gets into. Charles, do his book about the power of habit.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:10:02] From a standpoint of getting these cells to fire automatically, that we’re going to be disciplined and are going to take action and we’re going to do something kind of the first steps to doing that. So. In developing these neural pathways, we have to kind of make up our mind now. He takes a little bit different approach here on he being Peter Hall on six different parts and Charles du Haig, at least my understanding of it is that, you know, do Higgs is basically saying if you’ve got a neural pathway that’s in there, like the Grand Canyon is dug in deep into your brain, can be hard to just completely abstain from it. And that Peter Hollonds is kind of under the impression that we need complete abstinence from it. I don’t know that that’s possible in some things if you’ve done something for a long period of time. But the alternative is, is at least doing it in moderation. But the ideal would be to do abstinence in the theory that appear. Peter Hollonds buys into. So one of the examples I use for these neural pathways is I run.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:11:22] I used to run a lot faster. I do these days. But when I run, I am compelled to run. It’s in my neural pathway. I even if it’s hot out or whatever, I’ve got to run at least some distance because my by my mind is saying that this is something that is. Well, it’s been wired into my my brain that I need to run. And so every other day, about every other day, I go out and I go for a run. That’s a discipline that I’ve developed.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:11:56] I love to read. I know I’m not just one of those things I’ve I’ve learned to read over the years. I like learning new things. And by virtue of reading, I. I get new theories. I get new concepts. I get different perspectives. I get a lot of things. And that fulfills a need in me. And so those neural pathways have been built into what I do now. I’m recording videos and you know, I’ve had to get a setup here in my studio in order to record videos and learn how to use the software associated with video editing and things of that sort. And to me, I enjoy some of that because it’s something that I just enjoy doing because I’m learning something new. But the act of actually putting together this executive education program after 25 years plus of working with large, medium, small organizations all over the globe has been a little bit more challenging than I expected it to be. And it’s requires a different type of discipline in order to kind of get this thing done. And I’ve struggled with it.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:13:08] I’ll be the first to admit that that it’s been one of those things. So.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:13:16] And Peter Hollins book in The Neuros Neuro Discipline. He talks about that excuses basically are our minds, lies and that, you know, they fall into a few different categories.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:13:29] One is the perfectionist is one. A second one is blaming the environment, and a third is too intimidated to take action or taking a kind of a defeatist attitude. And I can tell you, if when I look through these, I can tell you it’s the perfectionist thing because I want it to be I want this executive education program to be perfect. And it’s not going to be some people are gonna like it. Some people are not going to like it. But I’m trying to put some effort into the thinking to help executives, because that’s that’s really what I you know, if you’ve listened to some of the videos that I have out there for free that explain a little bit behind the thinking is I’ve had the pain of going through and working with an organization, a bank that their leadership completely rejected my philosophy, my concepts, my thinking. And then that was after I’d already trained 450 people and their organization.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:14:26] So it’s one of those things that is near to me because I didn’t like the pain of doing that. So I had to start figuring out ways. How do I how can I change thinking? And the first thing I learned about changing thinking is I can’t change it. I can’t change or thinking. You have to change it. So what I can do is put out concepts or help you see things in order for you to change your own thinking. And that’s what I am, in essence, building in this executive education program. So my my mind’s a lie or my excuse is being a perfectionist and trying to get get these videos completed because there’s always something that can be better. And I’ve discovered that over and over. And I tried to do everything in one take as opposed to splitting it up. And that sometimes takes a while to get that right. But I’m getting better at it as far as learning how to deal with my own need to be a perfectionist and realizing that that’s not necessarily a good thing, because getting something out to people that I know will help them is really my my my objective.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:15:43] Now, he also talks, he being Peter Hollins and in neuro discipline, talks about three things that of need to happen. So let’s just take an example. You’re exhausted. He talks in terms of three things an objective truth, undisciplined action and a disciplined action. And this is helping to build these neural pathways. The objective truth may be that you’re exhausted. You need to write a paper or you need to record a video. And you say to yourself, an undisciplined action would be you. I’m just gonna go to bed and I’m going to sleep or take a nap or do something else, or because my brain’s tired of us and your brain does get tired of doing things that doesn’t necessarily. Can see the future benefit of. But discipline action is maybe you’d just do a few things. And then maybe go to bed. So you’re in essence kind of training your brain to do something. And this goes back to my running. You know, even if it’s 100 degrees out, I may sit there and say, I’ve got to run.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:16:45] I may not run three miles or five miles or ten miles, but I may run a mile or two just to kind of get that that neural pathway get get it satisfied and get the dopamine running in my brain.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:17:02] So I guess overall, you know, Peter Hollins talks in terms of the brain as reactive, fearful, angry, and that’s highly impatient. And one of the things that we’ve talked about in in previous episodes in Mindfulness, any lucroy in that episode, we talked about the importance of mindfulness. And and it’s just up for me. It’s as simple as a breathing exercise.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:17:28] They do it every night when I go to bed. I do deep breathing. And usually by about somewhere between the 15th and twenty fifth breath, I fall asleep and don’t even know I’m doing it. But it’s a way to clear the mind. I’m focused on one thing and that’s just my breathing. Breathing in. Breathing out. And this stuff has been around for a while. Not necessary. Sari Club mindfulness. But it’s a way of kind of getting your your brain to settle. And I do this quite often now, even during the day, is look for ways to use mindfulness.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:18:06] And know one of the things about discipline is and I like this word, these words that Peter Hollins use is. You’ve got to be comfortable with discomfort. So, in other words, it’s very it’s uncomfortable for me to do these videos because they’re not there. You know, just talking for six to seven minutes straight, even though I’ve done it in a podcast. I’m on a video. I’ve got to know I’ve got to go back and thinking ahead that I’m going to have to edit it and I’ve got to get comfortable with with with that discomfort. So that said, I thought it was a kind of good way to kind of explain my own thinking using neuroscience, some of the challenges that I have with doing something as simple as recording a video. But I. I think it might be helpful to you. I do suggest the book. I put a link to it. I think it’s like three ninety nine on Kindle, maybe twenty bucks if you want to buy the book. And it’s called Neuro Discipline. It’s by Peter Hollins. And the other book that also put a link to is that I mentioned, but I’ve also talked about previously the power of habit, which is Charles du Higgs book, which I highly recommend both of those. If you’re looking for ways to understand your brain, as well as get yourself more of a discipline or theories for you to try.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:19:33] You know, we talk in terms of of theories to try in your organization. These are theories for you to try individually, but they all kind of fit together in understanding the way that we think, how we make decisions and how we move forward over time.Both personally and in our systems, in our organization.
Tripp Babbitt: [00:20:00] If you are an existing executive looking for new ideas or a refresh, a new executive trying to understand a new organization or an aspiring executive looking for a leg up on other people, that you’re competing for an executive position, the ninety five method provides executive education that can apply by studying your own organization. We’ll give you the necessary skills not taught at universities in synthetic thinking, neuroscience, executive data analytics, decision making innovation and a customer in organizational structure. You can get. A preview of the training right now at Mind Your Noodles dot com forward slash free or at the ninety five metho dot com for slash free. This was a limited time offer before we start to offer the executive education for a an investment that is undetermined at this point.